ISAF Video Tele Conference

Interview with Brigadier General Ryszard Wisniewski, Deputy Director, NATO Joint Force Training Center

BRIG.GEN. WISNIEWSKI:  Let me introduce myself.  I am Brigadier General Wisniewski ACT Team, let me say Allied Command Transformation Team, an Afghanistan leader.  Normally, I'm assigned to Joint Force Training Centre in Bydgoszcz, Poland.  It is a structure subordinate to Allied Command Transformation in Norfolk. 

I served in army since 1972 and I served on different positions from platoon leader to command in general of remote covered brigade.  And just now my latest assignment is Deputy Director of the Joint Force Training Centre in Bydgoszcz, Poland. Over.

MODERATOR:  General, thank you very much for this introduction. I will simply pass the floor on to the journalists so that they can introduce themselves.  And if you agree we will directly start with the Q&A session.

WISNIEWSKI:  Thank you.

MODERATOR:  Brooks, do you want to start? 

BROOKS TIGNER (journalist):  Yes, my name is Brooks Tigner and I write for Jane's Defence based here in Brussels. 

MODERATOR:  Paul?

PAUL AMES:  Yes, good morning gentlemen, my name is Paul Ames.  I'm with the Associated Press. 

DIJKSTRA FRANS:  Good morning, my name is Dexter Fruns and I work for Dutch newspaper Trouw.

AHTO LOBJAKAS:  Ahto Lobjakas, Radio Free Europe, Radio Liberty and I also write for an Estonian daily, thank you.

MODERATOR:  I think we're all looking forward to  hearing more about your activities in theatre.  So I'll just ask:  Who wants to take the floor?  Paul?

Q:  Paul Ames again.  Sir, could you give us an idea about your work is there, in Kabul, what are you doing in terms of training there at the moment?  Just give us a broad picture of what your work is there please.

WISNIEWSKI:  Let me say that so-called Allied Command Transformation Team called “in-theatre team” will be in the nearest future integrated to new ISAF structure, ISAF XI. 
So far, we are preparing some... some duties for the future dates, however, we're dealing with different issues concerning training and equipment donations. 

Our basic duties as Allied Command Transformation Team are as follow:  We provide regular update on the status of training and support initiatives to COMISAF.  We are COMISAF point of contact for NATO's Afghan National Army training and equipment donation initiatives.  And we facilitate NATO nations' efforts to implement enough training and equipment donations initiatives.

At  the same time, we are as a primary point of contact and liaison for Afghan National Army training and equipment support with Combined Security Transition Command in Afghanistan so-called CSTC-A for... with a deputy command in general for international security cooperation.  That's it.

MODERATOR:  Ahto?

Q:  Thank you, Ahto, Radio Free Europe, Radio Liberty might well get deeper then.  I'm just... I'm just back from Afghanistan, a week long visit.  And we talked to quite a few ANA people during the visit.  And one of the things they keep saying that they lack... or their greatest needs is air power, air support, in terms of being able to function independently of ISAF.  I understand that is the number one issue.  I'm wondering if you could put any kind of timeline on how long it might take for ANA to be able to acquire sufficient resources to take of their own as support needs.  Thank you.

VISHNESKY:  Concerning the ANA training and the readiness to take responsibility for security issues in Afghanistan is a good question.  And it is not so easy to answer directly to this.  I think that the best solution is to go directly to CSTC-A because they are, how to say, running the complete plan for the Afghanistan National Army development.  So far, ACT Team Leader is not formally established and incorporated to HQ ISAF.  Over.

Q:  Thank you.  But purely in terms of projections, do you see Allies ready to donate the requisite planes and the rest of it.  I mean, I understand you might not be best placed to take responsibility for specific answers but given that the issue comes within your limit, I just... I'd be interested to know how long it might take realistically and who might be able to help the Afghans.  Thank you.

WISNIEWSKI:  As I mentioned before, it is not so easy to answer for this question.  It is a more complicated question.  Looking at the current let me say of development of Afghanistan National Army and current engagement in different countries with donations and training support to this, that is not so easy to evaluate or estimate the potential time concerning the readiness of this army. 

There are a couple of questions concerning not only the training, military training.  There are some questions with equipment. There are some questions concerning westernization of equipment in Afghanistan.  What for sure, we need to have a bit more training, more complicated training that this is necessary to provide to the former Soviet Union equipment that is so far using by Afghanistan National Army.  Another question is the problem with Afghanistan Army Air Corps with its equipment as well is the same problem.  And I'm not... how to say... right in... convinced about the proper time of readiness and the time that they are able to take over of responsibility in Afghanistan.  Over.

Q:  General  (INAUDIBLE) what are the most urgent need of the Afghan Army in your view?

WISNIEWSKI:  Afghan National Army has a lot of needs.  And starting with the basic language skills to get more and better relationships and communications between Allies and Afghans is the first problem that we have.  It is caused by very low level of education.  Many of ANA soldiers, officers and CEOs, many times we have very well prepared, very big combat experience Mujaheedin, that they are really fighting and working to improve situation in Afghanistan.  But it doesn't mean they are very well prepared to go through the procedures and the system that we try to provide to them to improve situation in Afghanistan National Army.  It needs time, a lot of time.  Over.

Q:  So the need is not so much equipment but training?

WISNIEWSKI:  I think that both are connected very close:  equipment and training.  As I mentioned, if Minister Wardak would like to go to NATO standard equipment it means that our efforts should be increased completely.  And looking of the education of the Afghans as I mentioned before, it means that the efforts should be bigger that we can, how to say, provide at this time.  Over. 

Q:  Yes, Brooks Tigner, Jane's Defence.  I have two questions.  First of all, how many Afghan troops are you currently training?  It's a pretty straightforward question.  And the second one is we need some concrete examples, when you mentioned equipment what you mean?  For instance, could you tell who the major donors are for equipment?  And what kind of major pieces of equipment they've given to the Afghan forces?  Thank you.

WISNIEWSKI:  Would you like to repeat your first question?  Over.

Q:  Yes, first question concerns training.  How many Afghan soldiers are you currently training right now?

WISNIEWSKI:  As far for dates, it is not officially established and incorporated to HQ ISAF structure, we are not able to monitor plans and programs of training of Afghanistan National Army.  Mostly, all these tasks are belonging to combined security transition command of Afghanistan.  And we cooperate with them very closely, tried to complement their efforts, encouraging NATO nations to support.  It is ANA security support plan.

UNIDENTIFIED:  Sure.

WISNIEWSKI:  Yes, to send more equipment and teachers, trainers, instructors to Afghanistan.  And the question:  How many soldiers should be sent directly to CSTC-A because they are responsible for their own campaign plan concerning the development of Afghanistan National Army.   (SILENCE) Over.

Q:  No, not over, Brooks Tigner, Jane's Defence again.  You are the Deputy Director in charge of NATO Joint Force Training Centre, your title would suggest to an ignorant observer such as myself that you would know how many soldiers are being trained by NATO Forces.  So I repeat my question.  If you don't know, that's fine.  But we need to know whether you're involved... whether you know how many people are being trained or not.  It would be useful for us as journalists to have that figure, thank you.

WISNIEWSKI:  Let me answer it this way.  I cannot agree with you that Joint Force Training Centre is directly engaged to the training of Afghan National Army.  We are engaged in the process of training.  And we train some structures from the NATO structure to... before sending to theatre to Afghanistan.  In the future, a potential solution, we can as the one of the training centers of Allied Command Transformation, we can be engaged to the process of training of ANA soldiers, let me say ANA officers as a out-of-country training. 

But let me say once again that for me it is not so important how many soldiers are trained, and how many Kandaks are ready and how many Kandakas are fielded now.  These responsibility belong to Combined Security Transition Command Afghanistan.  There is a feeling of the campaign plan concerning ANA development.  Let me say this once again, over. 

Q:  All right, guys, I've got to press him on one other thing.  The equipment.  Are you in position to tell us which nations are donating equipment and what kinds of equipment are being donated?

VISHNESKY:  Yes, I can.  However, not all the question can be answered by me at the moment.  Concerning the kind of equipment, I can say there are different kinds.  Let me say individual equipment for the soldiers, like helmets, body armours, weapons, munitions, bullets, uniforms to more heavy equipment like tanks, remote personal carriers, artifices (?) and something like.  But concerning which countries donate this it is more complicated to answer because many of agreements are -- how to say? -- performed, based on the bilateral agreement.  It means government directly to government.  So of donations are going through NATO channel, some of these donations are, how to say, performed based on bilateral agreements.  And this bilateral agreements are not so transparent, either for us as an ACT team or for CSTC-A as well.  Over. 

Q: Ahto Lobjakas, Radio Free Europe, Radio Liberty.  I'd like to return briefly about what you said... said about NATO standards.  Am I reading you right that the Afghan Defence Ministry could do more to switch to these standards?  Is there some resistance in Kabul?  Thank you.

WISNIEWSKI:  There are some... some not finally --- how to say?--- clarified situation.  Because sometimes Minister Wardak would like to go to NATO standards concerning equipment.  But sometimes, there are some shortfalls that cannot be covered by NATO standard equipment.  And they are, how to say, forced to go to former Soviet Union equipment. Let me say that they still have some pieces of different guns.  The majority of rifles are AK-47 and PK as a typical former Soviet Union equipment.  And there are... and they are very well trained to use these.  I expect some troubles concerning NATO standard equipment but it is more, how to say?, difficult to operate with this equipment.  And as I mentioned at the beginning of our discussion, it needs more effort from... from NATO nations.  It needs more trainers, maybe mobile training teams instructors and for sure it needs to develop institutional training for Afghanistan National Army.  But they are...  The Afghans are at the very beginning of this way.  We inspected and visited a couple of the places for the potential development of different brands of schools.  But there is not any...  So far, we have only a couple of small institutions.  Almost all of them... the majority of them were destroyed during the war.  It means that it needs some efforts to develop the master plans, to recognize what amount of money is necessary to be provided to Afghanistan.  What is their priorities in this situation to start for proper training for Afghanistan National Army? Over.

Q:  A brief follow-up, so if a NATO Allied such as Estonia sends Afghanistan 40,000 AK 47 that is not really helpful, is it? 

WISNIEWSKI:  I agree with your estimation.  It is helpful.  All donations are very helpful for Afghanistan.  But sometimes, sometimes the number of pieces of the weapon donated to Afghanistan is not enough, sometimes there are too many.  It depends on the quality of this equipment.  And so far, the Combined Security Transition Command in Afghanistan is dealing with pre-inspection before sending some equipment, some donations to the theatre.  And today it is a small problem because Afghan M.O.D. and General Staff not able to provide some, some officers from the structure to be sent to the place of origin of the donation to inspect this equipment before sending.  But anyway as short term initiative this support with AK-47, PK.  And different kinds of these weapons from the former Soviet Union influenced countries is okay.  But as a long term it is not okay, because as I mentioned they would like to shift to the Western standards of equipment.  Over.

Q:  Yes, General, Paul Ames, Associated Press, you mentioned earlier that what you called the main priorities was to teach language skills to the Afghan officers.  You mean, does that basically mean that you need more to speak English?  And what's being done to resolve that problem?  Is there a language course being offered to these officers and how big is that operation?  How widespread are those lessons?  And secondly to ask about equipment, what... what... in your conversations with the Afghan Army commanders what are their priorities in terms of equipment in concrete terms?  Are they looking for more tanks, more rifles?  What are their priorities in terms of equipment?  Are they looking for the NATO countries?  Can you give us some...?  You mentioned that there are both bilateral exchanges of equipment and some of which are going through NATO.  Can you give us some examples of donations that were made through NATO recently?

WISNIEWSKI:  Concerning first question.  I mean about English language.  English language is necessary to be -- how to say?-- more communicative and to have a direct contact of Afghan officers.  Because the majority of the trainers, instructors, mentors are using English language.  As I know, in Afghanistan, they train in different training institution, different languages, German language, the French language.  It is necessary of course.  But looking at ability of training, I mean, English language, from my perspective is the most important for Afghans so far.  There are some... some troubles as I said that we should start to develop a pace for the institutional training.  And it is not so easy.  It's not so easy because there is a lack of adequate teachers, trainers and we are -- how do we say?-- some request to shape... to support the U.S. institution, Defence Language Institution, DLI, with some teachers to start with language training for ANA pilots, Air Corps. pilots.  So far, we are waiting for answer.  I hope that after starting with a new centre at  KAIA , at Kabul airport that we have to say, some infrastructure with good classroom.  After equipping of these classrooms and getting some teachers, we will have to say able to increase the number of students with English language.  And in this case to... to improve situation with communication with them.

Concerning the priority of equipment, it is a good question.  I've never heard about the priorities in this case.  They need everything.  And everything is important from the Afghan M.O.D. and general staff perspective.  So it means that the tanks are important.  However, they would like to have only tank battalion, the artillery pieces are very important, rifles, machine guns, aircrafts  of different kinds, fixed and rotary wings doesn't matter.  As you see, everything is needed, is a requirement from the Afghanistan National Army.  Over.

Q:  I had a third question.  Could you give us some examples of transfers of equipment, donations of equipment made through... made through NATO recently?

WISNIEWSKI:  So far... so far we don't have good examples in this case, in this area.  However, we've sent some requests, some offers concerning the spare parts for aircrafts for the Afghanistan Air Corps.  We've sent some requests concerning the trainers and instructors for Air Corps.  Teachers as I mentioned before.  And mostly... mostly, let me say, mostly the requests are sending via combined security transition command.   

We have a weekly VTC with a shaped J... J4.  And we are checking and monitoring ongoing process with donations.  Many of NATO countries, Estonia, Slovakia...

UNIDENTIFIED:  Latvia.

WISNIEWSKI:  Latvia, Poland, they offer something, but sometimes there are some troubles concerning the transportation, some troubles, let me say internal procedure in the place of origin.  But different countries are engaged to this and different approaches are -- how do we say-- done with different countries, I mean about foundation for the transportation of this equipment.  Over. 

Q:  Ahto Lobjakas, Radio Free Europe, just very briefly, as an absolute minimum how many ANA officers in other branches would you like to have English taught asap? If you could give us of the magnitude of the language problem.  How many people need to learn English asap.  Thank you.

WISNIEWSKI:  There is no specified... the number of officers or soldiers of specific English skills.  But let me give you one example.  We are working with the project 65.  It means this project, there's an operational requirement from the COMISAF to integrate 65 of our officers to HQ ISAF and each of RC Headquarters.  And we are working closely with CSTC-A, MOD, General Staff to identify high-grade candidates.  And the biggest problem that we've met it is language skills.  Sometimes we have some... some examples that they are not able even read and write in Dari or Pashtu.  And that is a challenge for us, how to fill this task?  How to fill... ground this project if there is no chance to get candidates?  Because of that, very important is to start with English language training, over.

Q:  Yes, Brooks Tigner, Jane's again.  Yes, I wanted to come back to the issue of equipment donations.  You mentioned earlier spare parts.  And that's a very important issue.  In your experience so far, when the nations make their donations of equipment are they also providing sufficient maintenance supplies or support.  Or some of them simply dumping the equipment on the Afghans and hoping they'll make due because there have been cases of that in the past, not necessarily in Afghanistan.  But donations of equipment are worth very little unless there is sufficient spare parts and maintenance, supply, and training.  Thank you. 

WISNIEWSKI:  It depends on the kind of the equipment that is donated.  For example, ammunition, different kinds, doesn't need any spare parts or maintenance.  It should be in very good conditions.  Concerning the weapon and the heavy equipment, it is necessary.  It is our intent... It is agreed with CSTC-A.  And they were all players in this case, that if any countries is going to donate heavy equipment...  Doesn't matter:  trucks, APCs, tanks, artillery guns, aircrafts, it should be connected with spare parts and sustain.  If not, there is a problem. You're right.  That's very important to this is to provide some mentors, instructors, because in many cases they are not able to run or operate with this equipment.  And we try to encourage countries and CSTC-A doing the same to encourage countries.  If somebody is going to donate something, it should be with spare parts and sustain them.  Over.

Q:  General, given the current rate of training... training and equipping and the Afghan National Army, how far away are we do you think from the point where Afghan National Army units might be able to replace ISAF units from combat units.  How far away are we from that point? 

WISNIEWSKI:  It is a good question.  But we touched this problem a bit earlier.  And I mentioned, this question should be sent directly to Combined Security Transition Command in Afghanistan.  They have campaign plans and Afghanistan National Army's development plans.  We are... how to say... complement the efforts only.  And we are not monitoring.  Let me say we are not responsible for this plan.  It is as U.S.-led organisation.   And CSTC-A is responsible for that.  I can say that the process of training is ongoing.  And we try to train, let me say, we...  Because we are operating closely with CSTC-A.  Our  efforts are to train as many as possible the conducts in different.  Other specialities and to get, you know, the number of 70,000 ANA to the end of 2008 as I remember.  Yes, over.

Q:  Another question Brooks Tigner, Jane's Defence.  I'm wondering to what extent for training whether it's for equipment or language training or whatever, to what extent ISAF relies on private providers of the services.  Maybe you don't, but if you do how is it split?  What's the percentage looking at the local global training effort that is carried out by National Military Public... public... public paid officials and that by private outsourced supplies.  Thank you.

WISNIEWSKI:  That is a very good question for me, a bit too difficult, because I don't have the special information concerning the private engagement to the process of training.  And let me say once again that the best address is CSTC-A concerning this question.  Over.

MODERATOR:  General, thank you very much.  I think we are ending here our Q&A session.  I would like to thank you one more time for your time and availability.  I know how busy you are there in theatre.  And I wish you a good day.  Thank you very much. 

WISNIEWSKI:  Let me add to the end of our VTC that my mission will be completed until 20 of September.  Additional remark concerning the last question, ISAF is responsible only for the operational issues... operational because... (END OF RECORDING)